Comments: Dungeons and Dragons -7-1-00

From Anthony: If your are the people that wrote the stuff about the game dungeons and dragons, I would like to say this.

Second note from Anthony: well, ok, that made me think, sorry if I was rude.

Anonymous: I've been playing Dungeon & Dragons for 8 years now, that game latter introduced me to sorcery. I just want to say that you guys are fools to think that sorcery is dangerous. The power I have now is far more interesting that going to church every sunday! Me and my boyfriend (yes, I'm also gay) totally agree on this, and we find your site to be completely ridiculous.

From Matt: Your article on D&D is plain garbage. I have to tell you, if a child who plays these games and actually dose worship these gods, and preform rites of some sort, if they hurt them selves, or others, then they deserve what that young man got. A cell and a life term, or death. If they are that unable to tell the real world are not fit to live in our society. sorry if you think thats a little harsh, but I say weed out the unfit. You just come off as being idiotic to those who know the games, and fools to those smart enough to see past your bible verses and occult rants.

Have fun! Join me in my walk of doom!

From Jeff Wallace: Reverend John Charter, since you were forthcoming about being a minister, I was wondering if you would share more information. The author of this website certainly has laid her views and beliefs out quite thoroughly in most respects. So I thought since you were so outspokeningly critical about the site, you might lay out some of your views. For example what kind of church do you pastor? In your comments as I have aluded already you seem quite disturbed by the crossroad site, what specifically is it that makes it so bad to you? I am really curious about this. Thank you for you time in this regard.

From Reverend John Charter (Subject: D&D): HA HA HA! I just read your commentary on D&D and I must say, I've never read a more convincing parody page in my life! I almost bought it for a minute though. But then I realized, "this guy can't be for real, anyone who doesn't have a severe mental disorder knows that D&D is just a game!" Anyway, thanx for the laughs, have a good one.

Third letter: Issues? What issues? I didn't know your site dealt with any issues? I thought your site was a comedy page. Hmm, I guess it's okay with me if you post my letter on there.

From Tim: I just wanted to make a comment about dnd and this is the only way I found to respond. First off I am a christian, and by christian I mean a born again believer, who believes everything in the Bible as a fact. My denomination is Assembly of God.

I have played roleplaying games for a while and I know GM some. I have played dnd 3rd edition, which is the only edition I have ever played. I feel that dnd is niether evil or good no more than an axe is evil or good it is simply a tool. Now a murderer can use an axe to hurt and kill people which of course is an evil thing to do, however a firefighter can use an axe to save a persons life by chopping down a door to get to the people traped in side. For the most part though an axe is just used to chop wood which in niether good or evil. In the same way dnd is just a tool and most people just want to play a game.

Now I know it can be used to lead people astray and away from God, but In the games I dm I always make rules that bring it more to a focus of God and christianity, for instance i Never let people use the Druid or Sorcerer class in my campaigns, the only diety that can be worshiped is the living God and the trinity, also know evil charaters, and I also try to bring in elements to the game that will guide players to a christian perspective, like finding a wounded traveler and helping him without any gain to themselves.

Roleplaying games are inredible things because they can be anything you want so it is not the games fault for having dark elements in it, but the dm's and the players.

I'm not religous, I am a Christian!

From David: As a roleplayer of 6 years let me first speak this bluntly- the game in and of itself does not suggest doing evil, harming others, casting real spells, nor pretending to do this in real life.

There are LARPs (Live Action RolePlay) but there are set rules- one being *no weapons*, not even props, for safety; another being *no running*, reasoning being if you can imagine your character flying through the air as a bird, you should be able to imagine running- also for safety. In my experiences running Dungeons and Dragons, I have brought 3 people from otherwise totally introverted personalities to social people. They interacted first through the character, then in real life.

yes, one of my former players went on to persue Wicca, but if soemone's beliefs can't handle being shown the other side, is it worth anything? A person truly strong in faith should have no problem looking at the other faiths, and finding their good parts, but I am rambling off topic and will digress.

Any actual metaphor is merely visualized by the reader (there goes imagination again). Roleplaying games are the same. You portray a character in a not perfect world, where the heroes shine (at least in the games I run), and there is usually a peaceful way to solve the issue- be it talking or simply offering to share your fire.

I remember running one session where no dice were rolled- we just played out (in character) the dinner conversation. Much like a group of actors on stage, except ad lib. How did we do this? We used our imagination. One of my players that night was playing a character from this Earth, a Baptist priest. During that session, him and the priest of the sun god prompted a long discussion on the differences between the gods of the world's pantheon, and christianity. Ending with the knowledge that I take the attributes of God, and apply them amongst the other gods, using them as facades of It's power.

There are no "evil" gods, merely man made cults, etc. in my roleplay world. The only evil in that world was what people brought to it. Now let me ask, what is wrong with that Idea? I have even run a game where you chose your faith from amongst Islam, Catholicism, and Protestantism, set in the renaissance. Realistic descriptions of all three faiths, and they were portrayed well in a historical sense.

How far can roleplay and religion merge you ask? Religion- zip. Faith- forever. There are Christmas Pageants at every church around here. That is roleplaying - just the roles are set. There was an article in Dragon(™ or ©, I can't remember), featuring a minister who used D & D in order to help kids with low self esteem and shyness overcome that and socialize.

From Robert: I was raised in a christian home, with loving christian parents. We were not christians in name only, we walked the path.

I would also like to add I have been a Dungeons and Dragons role player since I was sixteen. Of course my parents were concerned (there were stories on the news regularly about the deplorable things some kids involved with the game were doing). Instead of arguing with my parents about it, I sat them down with the books and showed them what it was all about.

They were uncomfortable, of course, with many aspects of the game (mainly the polythestic way the gods were laid out). They expressed their concerns with this, and my reply was "I do not worship these gods...this character does." They knew my mind and heart and accepted this. We, after all, watched T.V. We went to see movies. Acting was a familiar concept to us.

I have played Dungeons and Dragons for more than 20 years, and I can honestly say I was never cohersed
into, nor have I practiced of my own volition, satanism or demon worship.

From R.S.: I would like to point out that your comparison between D&D and Harry Potter is no more significant than a comparison between Star Wars and Star Trek. They are of the same genre, therefore there will be similarities. I will not delve into the countless inconsistencies and errors in your articles that like minded people have pointed out, and I will close with a comparison to a classic childhood story known as "The Boy Who Cried Wolf", to suggest that some might take your foreboding more seriously, were they not so constantly flaunted.

From Jay Goodenbery: Just had to drop you a line when I accidentally stumbled across your site. I doubt you'll thank me for it, but I really do have your best interests at heart. To put it bluntly, some of your comments make you look like an idiot.

I have no problem with your strong christian beliefs. I applaud you for wanting to be close to God. While I disagree with your thoughts on Dungeons & Dragons (I am a long-time player myself), I support your right to hold whatever opinions you like. But the key word is opinion...you attempt to assert on your site as FACTS the idea that D&D is harmful, evil, pagan, etc. etc.

I am a nondenominational Christian. My brother (one of my best D&D players) is much more christian than I, a devout catholic. Two of the people I've played with most recently were both LDS (church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints), both missionaries and extremely devout young men.

If you believe that what people pretend to do around a table for a couple of hours, maybe once or twice a week, has more effect on their moral, spiritual, or mental development than LIFE, including parents, teachers,
church, friends, everything...than I'm sorry, but you're a fool.

In response to some of your particular comments and/or points:

-Your thoughts and comments to the storekeeper: In the first place, yes, he could have chosen any of the world's religions. He could also have chosen any religion he could have dreamed up. The point is, though, that at no point (unless he's a moron) was he actually WORSHIPPING according to that religion, or believing anything about it. He said no prayers to the sun-god, wore no robes, attended no services, expressed no faith. It was just pretending! He knows that his priest's "sun god" is no more real than Bugs Bunny. And as to your objection that the Celts were violent? They were no more (possibly less) violent than the early Isrealites, God's "chosen people".

For that matter, what would you have said if he'd told you his priest was a christian? I have rules I've invented for christian religious characters in D&D, including both priests and paladins (holy knights).

-I have substantial doubts about the studies you named regarding IIE. They gave only numbers and ages of test subjects, and then the "results". They told nothing of the method of selection, method of the expiriment, impartial data gathered, or HOW that data was used to come up with the conclusion.

In general, the idea that D&D is evil and has a detrimental effect on people (children or otherwise) has not been born out by any impartial study.

In fact, most studies have shown the opposite...gamers tend to be at least as intelligent and well-adjusted as other people of their age (often moreso), and there is no correlation between D&D and paganism or occultism. Most of the occultists and wiccans I've met (and I've met a number) dismiss D&D for the very good reason that it's not flashy and "hands-on". Wiccans and occultists and pagans like to CAST spells and do actual rituals and ceremonies. D&D has none of these...only dice rolling and scribbling on paper. Nobody "casts" spells, if by that you mean doing anything other than saying "I'll cast a fireball". Nobody worships gods (false or otherwise) as part of the game. Nobody picks up any real weapons, or even fake ones. Nobody does anything essentially except talk, roll, scribble, and eat pizza.

In short, trying to point out the evil occult manner of D&D is pointless...it's like trying to disprove God. You'll never, ever, succeed...since it's simply not true. And by attempting to prove it, all you do is prove yourself a fool.

From Digstar: I have just read through the comments made about the Dungeons and Dragons game. Please can you make the distinction whether you think role-playing games are bad for you OR that the background of D&D in paticular has problems.

The main reason for this is in itself role-playing is an amazing opportunity to participant in some genuine imagination exercises and creative experience, that you so don't get watching the television, including religious programs.

i guess you want to show that is rubbish at this point, but there is no reason why your DM cannot research a Bible story for example, then lead their Bible group through the story, allowing them to interact with it. Or I guess they could sit and just absorb the information. Any number of technology based training studies show that far greater absorbtion of material is made through interaction with the subject matter.

If it is the background then you genuinly need to read through the book and realise, One: it makes it all very clear this is imaginary. Two: it encourages you to create your own stories, not ones sold to you. Three: It is no more contreversial than ANY number of other forms of entertainment, and I would hope the bigotry and misogny of WWF holds higher in your concerns.

Four: Do not under-estimate the capacity for reasoning with teenagers. D&D attracts intelligent children, it has to as it is a complicated game. These children are the ones with the reasoning that allows them to understand what is going on. And if they do retreat into it that is the fact that we live in a world where we still have not evolved into a society that respects intelligence, not beauty and strength. And while this is not a good thing it is NOT the fault of the game. It is the fault of the SOCIETY adults force them to grow up in.

anyway, it has been interesting reading, god luck and I hope that you can answer this query.

From David: could you please tell me where you got some serious evidence of where D&D is evil. i need it for a school report and i cant find any real evidence, just stories with twisted words and lies trying to convice people, your site looked pretty legit. can you please tell me your sorces? thanks.

P.S. The christian faith teaches outa the NEW testiment, so any assaults on D&D from the old testament other then 10 commandments and beatatudes are considered null and void to me.

From Nikk: I feel compelled to write, not because I disagree with your views, as I am quite happy to co-exist with people who have beliefs different from my own, but that some of what you say about role-playing
games is of concern to me. I am responding to various views expressed on the "comments" section of your webpage, concerning Dungeons and Dragons.

Firstly, I am concerned with the idea that imagining a situation is the same as being in that situation i.e. imaginary killings are as bad as real killings. Obviously, I feel, this is not the case - the two are radically different. However, if imaginary killings are bad then surely this is a great difficulty. Next time I see the Bard's Othello should I rush to save Desdemona from death? I think not.

Is it possible that imaginary killings can somehow change one's personality to become more violent? Perhaps, but doubtful, I have never seen any connection between role-playing games and violence. Indeed, this is where I have a problem with what you say, role-playing is an extremley enjoyable experience, one that I engaged in as a child, as have many others that I know. It increases social skills, it engages the mind increasing ones mathematical ability, english skills, artistic talent, and a dedicated roleplayer will soon learn an assortment of facts about a variety of fields that they otherwise would not learn (much of my knowledge
of other societies cultures and histories stems from role-playing).

I have a friend, who as a child was prone to violence and theft. He joined a role-playing group and is now about to successfully complete a PhD in clincal psychology, a man who is an example of what children should want to group up to be. The oft told tale of the insane child who committed suicide due to roleplaying gave rise to investigations that showed that the figures, as they stood, suggested that children who role-played were less likely to be suicidal or depressed. The benefits of role-playing are enormous.

Role-playing obviously does not involve occult forces. None of the role-playing materials I have seen, nor am likely to see, include any information on the holding of occult rituals. Am I mistaken on your viewpoint? I fail to see how engaging in a discourse that involves the occult can be dangerous anymore so than this very e-mail can be said to involve the occult.

Some people do get obsessed. Indeed, one or two of the commenters seem to have been at one point. But this is not a problem with the game, this is just a feature of what people are like. People get obsessed, at least role-playing is not a particularly self destructive obsession like drugs, or worse. Anyone can be obsessed with anything, the subject of the obsession is not to blame, the conditions surrounding the obsession are.

Please read some more information on role-playing. GAMA will be glad to pass some along, I am sure. Perhaps go and see some role-playing groups in action, see how it has aided their lives, as children and as adults, and you will see that this healthy activity should be encouraged, not ignored. Thank you for your time,

From The Kid: D&D is the best role playing game ever created. do you know why? BECAUSE IT IS SO ___ FLEXIBLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( you should get the idea i like exclemation marks) For excample, you are a crusader from God seeking to destroy an evil pagan dude that is terrorizing the coutryside and doing realy bad things! it doesent eat you and destroy your mind unless you let it.

Harry Potter has a very remote relationship whith D&D. DO you know what that is? MAGIC! and magic is not eivil. Paginizam (in my oppinon) is evil. some peple may or may not have the same vews .

From Louis: God gave us one our most powerful gifts. The gift of imagination. Stories (which things like Harry Potter are nothing more than) are a gift He gave us to entertain, explain, and educate. We have inquisitive minds. By telling and glorifying something like magic, we don't teach that it is right. We teach that it is fun.

From Ryan Boell, Writer and Designer: I have never read Harry Potter. There's a reason behind it and i don't want my religion to be a focus of this email. But i do play Dungeons and Dragons. And it isnt evil as people claim it is. I am 22, gay, pagan and a roleplayer. I've been in a monogamous relationship for 2 years, my mom had me at 15 (shes 37) and a southern baptist. She raised me with an open mind and to view others the same way.

I would like to know if you have ever roleplayed or took the time to get to know a pagam. I read your article on a young girl who did a thing on paganism and a young boy wanted to start a christian group was told no.

That is wrong.

I think i can see where you are coming from but do you know where you are coming from? What are you hoping to acomplish by the telling that D&D is like Harry Potter? People say that black is a evil color and yet priests where the color all the time.

From SteelPangolin: First of all, let me congratulate you on your site. It is one of the more well-reasoned and laid out Christian sites on the WWW, lacking in the knee-jerk reactionism and the habit of not actually viewing the offending material that plague so many other Christian sites.

That being said, I have a few pieces of information for you about both Harry Potter and Dungeons & Dragons.

First of all, much of the D&D information in your "Harry Potter and D&D - Like Two Peas in a Pod?" article is based on the second edition of D&D, which as you know has been supplanted by the third edition. The third edition is a vast change from the second edition, and I believe if you borrowed a copy of the Player's Handbook you would find it much less morally offensive than the second edition's content. Many people still play 2nd. ed., but any new players (i.e., the children you are worrying about) will purchase 3rd. ed.

Additionally, Forgotten Realms is NOT a core book. This is just one of the optional settings books, and D&D can be played without them with no trouble, as many Dungeon Masters make up their own worlds anyway. D&D is really just a task resolution system (essentially rules for "Let's Pretend".)

And don't worry about the D&D movie, it wasn't very good and not many kids saw it.

You will be glad to know that Hasbro is not making a Harry Potter RPG, and will not be any time in the foreseeable future, because J. K. Rowling does not want people "putting words in her character's mouths."

I thank you for your time. Keep up the good work!

From Martel: I doubt I'll be able to add much after the vast hail of comments you've recieved already, but here goes... :) It seems to me that the main reason why you disapprove of the various Roleplaying/Wargaming/Fantasy environments is that the source of the magic in these environments is rarely specifically granted by the god of conventional Christianity, and must, by extension, be granted by the Fallen. However, you will notice that, when Moses was in Egypt, Pharoah's sorcerers were able to perform miracles almost as impressive as those of Moses (okay, maybe not, but they managed the rod to serpent thing, at least).

Now this is the point at which you are probably thinking "Aha! "You shall have no other gods before me!", however, bear in mind that the Bible is written with a specific audience in mind: that of a male, landowning Israelite.

Also bear in mind that the land of Israel was felt to belong to Yahweh, and that only he could be worshipped there: one of the main reasons why there seems to have been such an outcry against Jezebel's "religious reforms"- and also the reason why General Naaman asked Elisha for as much Israelite soil as two mules could carry: so that he could worship Yahweh while in Assyria. By extension, it would be justifiable for a mage on a fantasy world to recieve his power from the local deities of that land.

No, the soil has nothing to do with true worship. God isn't limited to a piece of land. Naaman had been healed by God, but he didn't yet know God. He still saw God through the mental filter of his own experience with paganism.

You will also notice that, in a lot of fantasy worlds, dabbling in the darker side of magic is depicted as being very unwise: a good example might be warhammer fantasy roleplay, in which the warriors and sorcerers of chaos recieve great power in this world, in exchange for both their souls and their humanity - the gods of chaos are fickle, and their gifts not always welcome.... Warpstone- magic in its most unrefined state, congealed into solid lumps of otherworldly energy, is depicted as a great threat, corrupting and mutating all that it comes into contact with. The commonest way, in the WFRP setting, of using magic safely is to limit oneself to a single "colour" from the swirling morass of darkness and chaos. Dark magic, however- the use of the whole morass, is considerably more powerful....

What you describe sounds a bit like Harry Potter's word. I deleted a short section. I don't like to provide so much ugliness to think about. In fact, I will continue your letter on the Harry Potter page, since you switch topics. But first, here is what God tells us:

"...whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate (think) on these things." Philippians 4:8-9

From John: I have noticed that a great deal of people have responded with negative comments. First of all, let me qualify myself on this issue. I had (past tense) played and dm'd D&D, AD&D, etc. for almost 20 years. I have played with all kinds of people over the years from all types of backgrounds.

Secondly, I read your comparison between D&D and Harry Potter. I don't understand a few things. You mentioned that the game store employee seemed pleased you asked him about his game. Is this bad (it seemed to me to be a bit condescending)? As his employer, I would be thankful I had an employee enthused about the products I sell.

From Jason Benson: Though I respect and appreciate your religion and your faith, I disagree with the ills of D&D and Harry Potter. They are both forms of entertainmet and provide a fantasy experience, much like a video game. A rational mind is able to keep reality and fiction seperate. Your example of the man at the fantasy store was a good point other than the fact that his character was a priest, not him. It is much like acting though you play a doctor on TV, does not mean one is a doctor. And if someone assumed that a doctor on TV was one in real life is kind of foolish.

I do not know much about Harry Potter, as I have never read the book. I have although played Dungeons and Dragons for a number of years...Though it's fun to play once a week, I do not carry anything over into my life. Which leads me to religion and answers, I myself am Humanist...but I am by no means correct. I have read and searched for information and answers myself and have drawn a conclusion. Am I done searching, no...Do I say your beliefs are wrong, no. If one thought the stars were gods, would I be sceptical..yes, are they wrong, I dunno. I think faith is a truely awsome thing, and not all have it or are capable. Until one has solid proof, I don't think they should be telling people their religion is wrong. It may be wrong for you, but it is not for them.

Matt L.: As a big fan of Dungeons and Dragons, and after reading your new article, I just wanted to give you a few things to think about. First off, you really don't seem to know anything about the game, in terms of rules. All you seem to have done is thumb through a CAMPAIGN SETTING.

Now, I know you haven't read the Players' Handbook, but you should be aware that Forgotten Realms is just one of many settings. Also, you do NOT have to choose from these settings. Most Players know of the rewards of playing a campaign created by you yourself or playing a campaign based on history (that is a very educational example).

If you feel the game is not "appropriate" or will "change your values," then you are free to play any kind of game or setting you want--the rules more than encourage this.

Why not play as a group of early Christians trying to escape persecution? It's certainly possible. You do not have to have wizards in your game. Many players do, but not because they're occultists but because they enjoy fantasy, and fantasy books are replete with tales of wizards and magic. Even The Hobbit, required reading at my Catholic High School, is FILLED with magic. The Hobbit has never been denounced for turning people to the occult.........

As far as Priests...a lot of players just play clerics and don't "worship" a specific deity. Those that do, either play a priest of a historical god (learning more about history/mythology) or a fake, made up god (such as those in Forgotten Realms, right Berit? You'll mention the fact that they're not real, right?).

No one worships their "gods" in real life, especially if it's a MADE UP GOD!!!!! If you think that this will "warp your values," then don't include them in your game!

My point is, that with VERY small changes, there should be no danger in Christians playing Dungeons and Dragons. The best defense, they say, is a good offense...in that case, I've taken the liberty of copying and pasting this article on the benefits of role playing.

From Rich: I am a former roleplayer of 14+ years. I was saved as a senior in high school back in 1983, but strayed for MANY years until recently when I rededicated myself and renewed my commitment to Christ. During these straying years, I found myself introduced to, and playing AD&D.

I became a DM (Dungeon Master, the Game Master: the one who sets the scene and keeps the game going along, acts as a referee of sorts and playes the parts of any Non-Player Characters used in the game) early on, and exclusively DMed for 12+ years.

I had made early attempts to use biblical values in the game (though even at that time, I was straying, going to church sporadically, not reading the bible regularly, not going even into prayer daily, etc). While I can relate from personal experience that it IS POSSIBLE to incorporate those principles, it does go against the nature of the game. I made it policy in my games not to use undead, or the AD&D supplied devils/demons/fiends early on. . . but this did not last - - Again, the nature of the game and the want to "thrill & entertain" the players was too much.

I found myself daydreaming about possible adventures to "work up" for the playing group during times I should have been concentrating on work. Then came the times where I could not get a ride to church that Sunday, so I chose to have a game session instead - - even though the base Chapel was walking distance away. . .

The game kind of inserts itself as a priority after time. . . I coveted the social interaction and humor and all of gathering and playing. We even began imagining real people (like a coworker or boss) as AD&D characters, and the players would have their own characters do things to them they could not do in real life. . . living vicariously through the character.

The other roleplaying games out there (Shadowrun, Vampire the Masqueade, Werewolf) are FAR more graphic, gothic, violent, and occult than AD&D is, although AD&D is more popular. It has been officially announced that AD&D is giving up the most "gothic" of their settings, Ravenloft; this is a good thing.

Today, I do belong to two online discussion groups on roleplaying (and three bible-based groups), but every member of those groups know that I am a Jesus-loving, Born-Again Christian. I cannot find time to get into the discussion board but every few days, as I have purposely made the game a non-priority in my life. One may think I am ostracized by my uncompromising beliefs by other members while in these clubs (I have stood up EVERY time ANYONE has posted anything that slanders Christianity or my/it's moral absolutes). . . Despite this, I have been invited to play in quite a few online roleplaying games. I decline, as I consider the game a part of my past, and - - even if I had the time, I would not enter into playing again.

. . it became such a distraction to my daily life in the past, and I want NO DISTRACTIONS to my seeking the Kingdom now. . . Although to this day I do not feel the game is satanic or demonic, I believe it does HAVE INFLUENCE, and that it is easy for people who may already be inclined to "go over the edge" into a fantasy world of their own, or become more socially introverted. . . well, lets just say that this game EASILY points them in the wrong direction, the trick is, you cannot know for a fact if your child is one of those who may be unduly influenced. . .

Better to play it safe, and not get involved - - it took me 13 years to "get out" of the game, and even then, when I get invited to play, I think back to how much fun it was "back then" before declining.

From Christopher: You said, "Please keep in mind that the RPG benefits cited in that article make D&D a powerful tool for indoctrinating the player with its values. Those values will be grounded in the various images, myths and stories that give life to D&D and other games."

I just wanted to ask, how is the D&D game any more powerful than the Greek/Roman Mythology classes I was REQUIRED to take in High School?

Of course, I understand that I may be behind the times, I was introduced to D&D in 1974...in it's infancy. We basically made up our own rules/laws/religions/worlds, etc, based on historical stuff we learned in high school. There were NO pre-fab 'worlds' like the 'Forgotten Realms'. Our worlds were usually heavily influenced by JRR Tolkien's writings...

I have yet to read a Christian denunciation of JRR Tolkien! I might add that in a game that I used to run about 15 years ago, my 'demons' were based on the 'Screwtape Letters'...does anyone really want to attack C.S. Lewis over that? I fact, I find the hysteria about D&D about as dumb as the 'hysteria' that should follow a person's interest in, say, the Wehrmacht of WW2.

I never hear that those who pursue such 'historical' wargames are also indoctrinated in Hitler's ideology...or, if their interest is in Napoleonics, that they suddenly see themselves as Napoleon.

You said, "Since D&D has become an international game, players generally use the same rules and standards everywhere." What is wrong with standards? This just allows a kid moving to a new neighborhood to continue to play a game. Chess, my other passion, is also an international game, with the same rules and standards. Note: during the Middle Ages, the Church frowned on chess-playing. Coincidence?

You said, "True, a player may define his own role, rules and gods, but as long as he uses the official cards and games, he will consciously or subconsciously -- conform his thinking to many of the universal beliefs and values of the global network." My translation of that last paragraph: "True, a (chess) player may choose his own openings, strategies, and plans, but as long as he uses the 'official' pieces, pawns, and boards, he will -- consciously or subconsciously -- conform his thinking to to many of the universal beliefs and values of the global network" -- Huh?

From Christopher again: I just thought of another question: is it D&D specifically that is objected to, or role-playing games in general? Other favorites of mine are En Garde! (Historical role-playing a la the Three Musketeers), Boot Hill (historical role-playing in the wild, wild, West) and Traveller (science-fiction role-playing in a Star Trek-Battlestar Galactica-Star Wars-Larry Niven type setting. Except there is no 'Force') If the objection is the use of 'magic' in a fantasy game, surely these rpg's are acceptable. Nothing supernatural in them.

I do think that rpg's are perhaps marketed to a too-young age group. We were 13-14 when we started playing. I think they are aiming a 8 yr. olds now. An eight yr. old may not yet understand the difference between make-believe and reality. Hence (IMHO) the concern about the Harry Potter books. I haven't read them, I put them in the same category as Pokemon cards...silly, but are the Harry Potter books any worse than the Chronicles of Narnia? I'm asking because I don't think that children would get the difference between Aslan and magic. Thanks for the reply

From Michael Murphy: I used to play it and i think I have a contribution to make.

D and D has no place in it for God. "What part hath darkness with light". It is a vain game. It is a spiritually dead game. If you don’t kill people in real life because it is sinful why would you kill creatures including humans and other humanoids in your mind/make believe? Because it’s fun right?

Entertaining an evil thought is the sin in playing a D and D game. Now you are not constantly sinning in that manner while you are playing, but you wouldn’t get anything out of the game at all if you didn’t kill anything. Some people say that you could use the D and D rules to play a game based on real life as Christian characters that were "lawful good". I would say that this is almost never done. And by the way, I have spent 10000’s hours (yup that right) playing it reading sourcebooks and writing stories about characters in it, so I don’t want to see replies to this piece stating "I don’t know the game." D and D knowledge proficiency check would be a 3 or better on a d20. (Please disregard this technical reference if you have not played the game.)

One of the driving themes in D and D is improving your character's level through the accumulation of experience points. You get them by completing riddles, solving mysteries and generally completing the Quests. You also earn experience points for successfully defeating (killing) orcs, trolls, elves, gnomes, dwarves, humans, teiflings, tanari, pit fiends, beholders, dragons (if you are lucky), peasants, etc. In most cases players end up killing something every time they play. There are exceptions; sometimes the entire session will end with out bloodshed, but almost never in my experience. So is imaginary killing for fun a justifiable activity?

Jesus tells us, "Ye have heard it said of then of old time, Thou shall not commit adultery: But I say unto; That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:27)

He shows us that entertaining sinful thoughts, and taking pleasure in the idea of sinning, IS sin itself. So every time you allow the Character you are role-playing to steal, lie, commit adultery, or KILL, YOU are guilty of sinning by thinking about and "role playing", acting out these sinful thoughts. This goes for violent Video and PC games as well.

Evil is not on this planet so that we might enjoy it or identify with it. Imaginary Killing is not a justifiable form of entertainment in God’s eyes. Period. If you call yourself a Christian then you should follow Christ’s example as best as you can. There isn’t a true Christian alive that can say if Christ was on the planet right now that he would even THINK of playing D and D or any other game that had ANY KILLING, LYING, STEALING, OR ADULTERY in it.

The D and D worlds have many gods very much like the Greek or Roman gods. There are gods of love and beauty - Sune, war - Tempus, paladins (holy warriors) - Paladine thievery - Mask, nature - Eldath and Silvanus, which is a name I am certain I have seen in the Bible.

You are right. He was among the early apostle and is mentioned four times.

And also a god of murder. His name is Bhall. In Baldur’s Gate 2 Shadows of Amn the new PC game from Black Isle studios, the main character, THE ONE YOU PLAY, is none other than a SON of the the D and D campaign setting Forgotten Realms deceased god of murder- Bhall!!!!! No Christian should be playing D and D.

Christians should notice the use of a pagan gods name (Bhall) as in 1 Kings18. There is a pagan god that the people of God have started to follow and Elijah says this to them:

"How long halt ye between two opinions? If the LORD be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word."

Bible believing Christians might be moved to throw out there D and D stuff when they see scriptural truths as they relate to these subjects, non-believers of course will say that the use of the name Bhall has no coincidence. Go to the site and see for yourself.

Allow me to point out some of the other ways that this game is unprofitable spiritually.

Time. All the time you sit there playing an almost definitely evil game you could be reading the Bible, Helping the poor, ministering to your Brethren or doing some physical activity.
Money. There are people in the world that don’t have enough to eat!! The 20 bucks you spent on that players handbook could buy enough food to feed an entire family for a week!! If all the money that "Christians" have spent on D and D products had been put to good use we COULD HAVE SAVED REAL HUMAN LIVES. But I guess we would rather engage in entertainment of an unGodly sort than help starving, suffering people!!!!! We are called to be the light of the world and instead we engage in fruitless activity. I am ashamed that I ever allowed myself to justify playing this game and IF you have the Spirit you should be too. Jesus would not approve.

Psalms 2 "Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?"

Romans1: 21 "Because that, when they knew God they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened."

Romans1: 28 "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, INVENTORS OF EVIL THINGS…"

From Gabriel: Oh, I get it now! Anything that's entertaining that has something to do with a new concept will turn us from God! Therefore don't have fun, God requires us to be stuck-up with boring lives filled with nothing but work and Him. Yes, I know I'm blowing things out of proportion, but at least I have your attention now.

I gave my life to the Lord on 24 April 1999. I had owned an introductionary box of AD&D long before that, but we never actually got an opportunity to play. Contrary to popular belief, it can be extremely difficult to gather 8 or 9 people in the same place on a Saturday (I still refuse to play on a Sunday, as I have chosen my Sunday to be my Sabbath -- the day I rest -- the day I dedicate to the Lord). Early in 2000, our group of friends started playing AD&D. It became an excuse to be together -- all of us at once. We play it, we enjoy it, but we also enjoy each other's company.

This is why there is violence in the media (movies, T.V., the news :o) ) and why there is a representation of violence in AD&D. It accurately depicts the nature of the world. If a movie or story (in a book, or wherever) does not depict human nature and the way people think accurately, it is not a good story. Our first reaction to a threat is to eliminate the person who is threatening us. It should not be like this, but it is. You have to learn to think, to try and defuse the situation before it leads to violence. Our AD&D games encourage that. At least *I* try to encourage it. Whenever one of my friends, or in AD&D terms, from my character's point of view, one of the members of the party, charge blindly into battle instead of assessing the situation first to see how he could rather avoid conflict or how you could rather defeat the foe and keep them alive, thus having a way to unlock information (or intelligence in military terms) to aid you in your struggle against evil.

Our "quests" in our campaign currently include saving the world. Where else would you be able to physically save the world except in your imaginiation. We know we cannot single handedly save the real world from all the evil that plagues it. We might be able to help in our little corner of the world, but without the help and co-operation of Chirstians around the world, we can never make a big enough impact to save the world. You know which save I mean (as in souls).

Our pastor always has some quotable quotes I like sharing in times like these: "Rule number one: Have fun."

"While I linked the RPG article to your comments I need to include this warning. Please keep in mind that the RPG benefits cited in that article make D&D a powerful tool for indoctrinating the player with its values. Those values will be grounded in the various images, myths and stories that give life to D&D and other games.

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